SPEAKER 1: With our thanks to Sam and Aisha and Don for coming back to the Institute of Politics. This is his first time in the forum. So please join me in welcoming-- 

DON LEMON: So be nice. 

SPEAKER 1: That's right. Thank you. 

DON LEMON: What are you guys doing at school on a Friday? When I was in college, Friday was like, recovery day-- 

AISHA: Seeing you 

DON LEMON: -from Thursday night. But you guys are smart and diligent. I was bad. 

AISHA: All right 

DON LEMON: Thanks for having me everybody. 

SPEAKER 2: Yeah well, anyway, thank you, Mark, and thank you especially Don. I know Aisha and I, and the whole IOP and Harvard, we're all so excited to have you here. I think this will be a lot of fun. We'll start out with a soft ball, as you might call it. 

AISHA: We call this the hot seat. 

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, don't worry too much. Maybe you could just begin by walking us a bit through your career in journalism, and how you decided in particular to go into television. 

DON LEMON: Oh, wow. Well let's see. It started when I was a kid and I used to go over to people's tables, we would be having dinner and we'd be on vacation or wherever. And I would ask people, where are you from here? Are you here on vacation? What are you doing? And my mom would say, come back here. And my dad would say, don't teach him to be afraid of people. 

I don't remember that, but that's the story my mom tells me. So I've always asked a lot of questions. I've always been curious about things. And my father was an attorney and so I started off in school saying, I want to be an attorney, I want to be an attorney. And I hated it. 

And so, one day, I saw this woman on television and she looked like me. This is-- In those days, it was like JJ, and we didn't have many role models that looked like my family. 

Then the Cosbys came along, finally, but I saw her, and she looked like my family, and she wasn't doing like [INAUDIBLE] not that there's anything wrong with that. And I said, that's what I want to do. 

And her name is Jean West she's still in the business. And she inspired me to be a journalist just by seeing just her mere presence being on television. It cemented what I wanted to do. And so then I ended up changing my major to broadcast journalism, and the rest is history. 

But when I was in Louisiana, my journalism teacher told me I would never make it as a journalist. So I moved to New York, finished at Brooklyn College, and there you go. Yeah. 

SPEAKER 2: Awesome, thanks. 

AISHA: Some key take-aways. 

DON LEMON: Anything else? 

AISHA: Yeah. 

DON LEMON: And then I went on the local markets, I worked behind the scenes. I started out-- I won't go on too long-- but I started out at Channel Five in New York City as a trainee making $5 an hour. And it was supposed to be a six month contract. 

This is back in the days when people actually sent mail, I would stuff mail in the mail boxes, I would answer phones, and I would enter futures, like story ideas and crew assignments into the computer, and go get people's lunches and dry cleaning and what have you. 

And then they extended my contract after that to become a production assistant, then I became a writer. And then I became a film producer, then I became the assignment desk editor. And then I started doing things on air. The folks, the crews would pay me back by doing a tape for me. 

And then I went to Birmingham, Alabama from New York City. And then from there to St. Louis, then St. Louis to Philadelphia, Philadelphia, New York, NBC, New York to Chicago, Chicago, Atlanta, Atlanta, New York. 

SPEAKER 2: Wow. 

AISHA: All right. 

SPEAKER 2: OK 

SPEAKER 2: --caught all that. 

AISHA: I really appreciate you kind of leading with the fact that for you, representation mattered, when you saw somebody who was a reflection of you. I can tell you as a Black, LGBTQ activist, I have followed you, followed your career, followed your coming out, and your evolution, and your own identity as a Black gay man. And I would love it If you could kind of share with us a little bit about the personal side and evolution for you in doing this work. And kind of how you have grown, and how your lens, perhaps that identity lens, has shifted and colored your work. 

It's easier now, I mean, even though it's still different, and at points, frustrating and difficult, but not the way it used to be. There are levels of coming out. So when I started in the business. I left Louisiana, that was another reason. I wanted to be me. So I came to New York City and I could be out because no one knew me. 

So I was out to my coworkers and friends, but never out to my family, not out to my family. And then that as that progressed, I went out to my family. And then as that progressed, I came out publicly. So as you know. There are levels to coming out. 

I think it was difficult in the beginning because even my representatives, I came out publicly back in 2011, because people would say, do you want to be known as the gay anchor. And back then it's like, no. And now, it's like, sure, why not? 

But that's how things change. But even in that it's difficult because you always wonder how you're being perceived. A lot of the criticism of me is sometimes warranted. Other times I think it's based in homophobia, a lot of it. And I think a lot of it is also based in racism. 

And so I tend not to pay attention to that. I just let things roll off my back and I just continue. It's like blinders. But what's interesting to me is, what people don't understand, it's a very odd space that I exist in, in this. 

First of all, I'm the only person like me in Primetime on Cable I'm a unicorn. There's just me. I'm black and I'm gay. Black folks have certain expectations of me. Many feel that I should represent all Black people, same thing with gay people. And most journalists who are not of color, and who don't happen to be gay, don't understand that because no one expects them to be the representative for all white people, or all Jewish people, or for all-- they don't. And then they expect me to be the representative for all gay people, all Black people. 

And so that's a weird position to be in. And if I say something that's factual, the sort of diaspora that people don't like, then they come down to me, you're not Black enough, or you're not gay enough, or you're not down for the cause, when it's really-- this is my job. 

AISHA: Well, I can say that certainly I have watched and participated in the conversations where Black folks and the LGBTQ community have been some of your worst critics at times. And I-- 

DON LEMON: It makes me stronger though. 

AISHA: And I appr-- well I appreciate where you have come. In fact, very recently, you had a very impassioned appeal to Kevin Hart around his homophobia and led from a place that was personal. And similarly, when we talk about white identity politics, you've come out and said, wait a minute, there's a whole racialized element that I see as a black person. And here's what's happening. So speak about the kind of way that you see the world through your lens, and bring that a bit into your journalism. 

DON LEMON: I see all the identity everything, like all the identity politics. And the conservatives should not pretend that there isn't white identity politics, or Trump identity politics, or whatever, that is happening on that side. Because the people who-- the folks who say, well, we're the forgotten folks. What about the voter in the Midwest? What about the lunch pail? And that usually translates to white voters. Right. 

When we have to remember that there are lots of people of color, and all different ethnicities, and religious backgrounds who carry lunch pails to work, middle class people, they don't necessarily live in the Midwest. There's nothing wrong with the people who live on the coasts. They're Americans too. Right. 

So I get to see all of it. Because every single night for two hours a night, for five days a week, I should say, everything comes at me. I meet all different people. 

When I started, I remember when I came out, I went on the Joy Behar Show which was on HLN, which is part of CNN. And in the very studio that I'm in now, I sat on her set and I noticed she would just-- they would just bring people in from all different backgrounds, all different kinds of people and they would just bring--. She was sitting there, they'd bring them in, she'd get to meet them, and then they'd escort them out. 

And I sat down and I said, Joy what an amazing job. You get to meet all these people and you don't even try. They just bring them in, you get to meet them, you get to understand people whatever. And then they go and you meet somebody else. 

And then five years later, I'm sitting in the same seat, in the same studio. I don't know if it's the same seat with them ushering people in, and me getting to know them. But I see all of it. 

Everyone comes at life seeing life through a different lens. We all have different lenses. And so there's nothing wrong with having a perspective on things as long as you don't let that carry or obscure your thinking and what you do. You need to realize, yeah, I realize I'm Black, I realize I'm gay, all of that. 

But I also realize the bigger part of me, when I'm sitting there in front of the camera, when I'm doing my job, is to be a journalist and a conduit for the people. And it's to bring those certain aspects to the table but not necessarily let them transcend or be the bigger part of me. The biggest part of me is to inform the American people and to have an informed electorate. 

And I think who better to do that? I am the American story. 

AISHA: Oh, say more about that. 

DON LEMON: Well, I mean listen, I grew up-- 

AISHA: I almost had an Obama moment. 

DON LEMON: I grew up in the deep South with lots of racism, a little Black boy, my teeth were too big, my ears were too big. And I had crooked teeth and big ears, and a single mom. My mom and dad weren't married. And then my dad died, and then my mom remarried. 

And so on, I didn't grow up-- I wasn't wealthy. And look where I am now. I left Louisiana and I didn't sit there and say, hey, I want this network job. The job has to come to me. No, the world was changing. The job I wanted was not where I was, where I lived. 

So I went out into America. I went out into this land of the free, home of the brave, and I made a way for myself with all odds stacked against me. 

And so to me, I am the American story. It's not just one American story. 

AISHA: One of the things that I really respect about you is the way that you, more, and more, and more, are showing up as human, as a journalist, and emote when things are crazy, when things are hurtful, personally. 

So share with us, in all of your coverage, what's, perhaps, maybe, the one or two stories that have really emotionally affected you the most? 

DON LEMON: OK. So what I've realized, is that you can't be all things to all people. You can be who you are. And you can show people all things through who you are. That's the best way to do it. 

But the one or two stories that affected me the most was, I have to say, one was Newtown. And I remember being there. And honestly listen this is no disrespect, I couldn't wait to get out of there. It was the hardest thing that I've ever done in my life. 

And when they said to me, you're clear, the train station was 45 minutes away, and with traffic they said it was an hour. I drove so fast that I got there in time to sit down in the train and eat a sandwich. I was-- I had to get out of here because, and my heart goes out to those folks. 

One of the last live shots I did there, I was standing there waiting for them to come to me, and there was a hearse that went by with a procession. And I could see a mom with her head against the pane on one side, and the dad, on the other side. And there were other kids in the back and then this tiny little coffin in the back. And I said, oh my God. What is this? 

That story affected me and in a positive way, the inauguration of the first Black president of the United States. It was amazing to watch and I said, look at where we've come to, where we've gotten to in this country. 

Those two stories, one was inspiration, the other was, I hope never again. 

AISHA: Yeah. 

DON LEMON: Those two stories, and only as a human being, as you said, can I tell those stories through the experiences that I've had in this country. 

SPEAKER 2: So I interned at CNN a couple of years ago and every time-- 

DON LEMON: I know they still talk about you 

[LAUGHTER] 

DON LEMON: They warned me though. 

SPEAKER 2: In addition to that. No, every single time anybody asked anybody, what the most impactful story that they had ever covered was you'd either get the inauguration, or more often, people would go to the negative, and talk about Newtown. 

So you have certain stories like that you obviously need to cover, and cable news gets a lot of criticism for sensationalism and infotainment. 

I'm wondering how, especially in this media environment, when you've got millions of stories seemingly happening every day, and we seem to even forget about huge ones like the whole Virginia thing from last week, how do you express emotion? How do you convey to your audience what to actually care about, when that might not be obvious? 

DON LEMON: Well, listen, people are going to care about what they want to care about. But as I said, only through me being a human being that I can convey that. I think authenticity, I think people know when-- people can spot a fake a long-- well, I used to think that, people can spot a fake usually a million miles away. But that's how I do it. 

I don't sit there and think, oh, OK, I'm going to convey this emotion there. Now it's time for outrage. I don't really do that. I just do it as a human being. And I think that's why people tune in to me. That's the only way that I can answer that, and I think that by being comfortable with yourself, and also by not really caring what people think about you. 

And I don't mean not caring about the way you conduct yourself, being appropriate. But I don't worry about what the critics say. I'm not sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to say this and this is going to blow up on Twitter. 

There are people who do that. There are people who go on the air, they scroll through Twitter and through social media, they sort of get a sense of what people are thinking and how they feel about a certain subject that they're covering. And then they conduct themselves accordingly. 

I just go-- sometimes I just don't even look at social media during the day. Or someone will say, I sent you something on Instagram, and I'll go, oh well. I'll go check it. But I don't let what other people think control the way I act and conduct myself on the air. 

And so I think that people sense that authenticity, and they sense that sort of hey, look I'm not here for your consensus about what should happen. I'm here to inform you. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. 

SPEAKER 2: a kind of similar note, obviously I mean, if anybody here I'm sure many of you, if not all of you have seen Don on TV you can tell when you are emotional 

DON LEMON: I cry. I'll cry if you look at me. I can't believe you guys showed up. I may cry because of that. But no, every single moment, but this is another answer to your question, and to what you asked earlier, every single moment honestly, I live in gratitude. 

Like I'm wow, look I'm going to Boston, I'm going to speak at Harvard today. That is amazing for this little kid who grew up with nothing. Right? Or sometimes I sit in the studio and the lights are bright like this, and the guys are all joking. They're like, oh Don what's Happening, we're joking. And I'm sitting there going, wow, look at this. I can't believe this. 

And then all of a sudden, it's quiet. The lights go on and the them comes up, and you're like, this is CNN tonight. You're like, oh, look at where I've come. Look at this. And imagine being able to broadcast that and to hold people accountable, the highest leaders of the world, right, every single night for two hours. . And I can say whatever I want. I can say whatever I want. Doesn't mean I'm not going to get in trouble for it. That's pretty amazing. 

AISHA: And the pressure of the personal responsibility too that comes with the huge opportunity, right. 

DON LEMON: But if you live-- guys and I don't want to be like, oh my gosh, this whole deep spiritual thing-- but if you live in gratitude, it changes your whole being. 

And if you also become curious instead of judgmental, instead of judging like, oh I can't believe this person. Why does this person feel that way? Why do you hold the beliefs that you hold? Why did you do to have those actions? Then it makes your life and your career path much easier. 

SPEAKER 2: I mean coming off that, how about when you're on air, and you're flanked by two people with completely opposing viewpoints, sometimes kind of exaggerate. I mean, when I talked to friends before they knew I was going up on stage here, they all mentioned the panels. They want me to ask about the panels. So maybe you can speak a little bit to how you frame your questions and your discussions so that they're productive. 

DON LEMON: Yeah. Actually, that's easier than real life. Sometimes I get it in real life and people are actually yelling at each other, and I'm in the middle. I remember I was at a function, and I forget what it was for, maybe it was a premiere or something, and there was Monica Crowley who is on the right and Christie Brinkley who was on the left, and they were literally, Monica was sitting here, and Christie was sitting here, and they were talking over me. And I was like, oh my gosh. 

So I can't control that because what I can control on television is, OK guys, we got to go to break, and then your guests leave. But I can't do that in real life. I can get up and I don't want to be rude. 

But listen basically my questions are why? And there's no political agenda. Why? And if you tell the truth, I'm fine with that. If you don't tell the truth and you obfuscate, and you give talking points, I'm not cool with that. Because having the opportunity to appear on national or international television is a privilege, to speak directly to the American people, or to whoever that audience is. That is a privilege. It's not a right. 

And so you can't come on and say, oh my gosh, you're taking away my freedom of speech. You're free to say whatever you want. That's your right. But it's not your right to come on CNN and say whatever you want. And people will get that. Oh, the left or CNN, or whatever news network, they're trying to take away my right to free speech. No, we're giving you the opportunity to come on to explain yourself. And if you're going to explain yourself, you have an obligation to do it truthfully. 

AISHA: So a follow up to that. We are in this really interesting world, right now, where there's a fine line between free speech and the propagation of crazy lunacy, and lies, and propaganda. And I'm just curious, as a journalist, because I'm an opinionator, y'all know I'm a pundit, right, and I don't necessarily pretend to spend weeks in the field, analyzing and understanding what's going on, I'm curious how you as a journalist try to have some balance with that idea that there's free speech, you can say what you want and feel how you want, but then this is not the forum for you to just come and lie. How do you do that dance? 

DON LEMON: Well just because you can say something, it doesn't mean that you should, right. There's appropriateness. One should always try to be appropriate. You wouldn't go to a funeral and start screaming at people, would you? So if you are on national television or if you come to someone else's home, you're not going to try to burn somebody else's home down. That's just good old fashioned home training, right. 

AISHA: Those of us Southerners know what home training is. 

DON LEMON: That's home training. You go to someone else's house, you'd be respectful. And you can't tell them that their drapes are ugly, but you can say, oh where'd you get those drapes? And they can say such and such. And you'd go, oh, bless your heart. You don't have to say, damn those drapes are ugly. There's a certain way one should be able to conduct oneself. 

But you're asking what is appropriate and what is free speech? 

AISHA: No. I'm just curious, the seat that you sit in, like, I can say, you know what, you're a complete liar and a bastard, because you're a liar. Right, I can say that. But as someone who's trying to maintain integrity by allowing there to be some ideas that flourish, I wonder how you do that dance? 

Where there's in my opinion, there aren't all sides, right. There aren't two sides to everything. Some things are right and some things are wrong. But sometimes when you sit in the seat that you sit in, you have to be a little bit more diplomatic. 

DON LEMON: In the old days and still now I think it's truth and facts, so if you give me a lie, I'm going to give you the truth. And if you give me something that's wrong, I'm going to tell you the fact and I'm going to read it to you. But in this day and age, that fact you're saying that because you want it to be part of your political, or your agenda. And it's like no, that is an actual fact. These are the numbers of whatever it is that we're talking about. 

But a lot of people don't want to believe that, and it's kind of scary now because some people, even with empirical evidence, a lot of people don't believe facts and truth, and that's really scary in our society. But I can tell you that you're lying. It's OK if you are lying. 

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, going off of that, so obviously there are certain things that we do control. You've talked about things that you can control like how respond to a panelist. How you call out a lie from a truth. But one thing that you can't control is President Trump's Twitter account. 

And I'm curious-- 

DON LEMON: Yes I can, I don't follow him-- 

SPEAKER 2: --but apparently he watches you, so maybe you can control it, and he said some things, but I mean speaking to that, I'm curious how the fact that President Trump has been so vocal against CNN not MSNBC, it's CNN, who is supposed to be quote, unquote, "down the middle". He's pushed you to one side, whether you guys like it or not. 

DON LEMON: No, he hasn't pushed us to one side. Listen, here's the thing-- 

SPEAKER 2: In perception, I'm not saying-- 

DON LEMON: OK. Finish your question, I'll answer, go on. 

SPEAKER 2: Well, I just want to be clear, when I say, he's pushed you to one side, in the minds of, if there are sides, other people. Can you speak a little bit to, how or if, that impacts your coverage in any way. How do you respond? 

DON LEMON: So here's the thing, when the truth is not on your side it can seem ideological. Right. So if someone is constantly telling, giving you misinformation, or lying or trying to spin facts, and you give the truth, it can make you seem like you're anti that person, when you're just in fact, anti a lie. 

Now, that's true. If you tell me that background is red. And I say no, the background is blue. And you say, well that's just because you're a super righty, or a liberal lefty, and that ba--. And you're like, no, that doesn't change the fact that the background is blue. Just because it doesn't fit your political perspective or whatever agenda that you want. So my agenda is true. 

The reason that, I think one of the main reasons that, this administration, this president, directly to your question, does that, is because he realizes that there are open-minded objective people who tune into CNN, who don't want, for the most part, their beliefs reinforced. They're not exactly far left, they're not exactly far right. They're more moderate. And he feels that he can change those viewers minds and opinions. 

So that's why he speaks out about that. Number two is because he really respects us. The only people he really says bad things about are the institutions that he grew up on loving. He loves the New York Times. He loves CNN. We're iconic brands like Coca-Cola and Xerox. 

And so he knows that, and he loves the media. Trust me, he may say, he hates the media. He loves the media, and without the media there would be no Donald Trump. And the biggest news brand in the world are three red letters, CNN. 

And he understands the power and the clout that we have, not only in the United States, but especially around the world. Biggest international news brand. And so he hates it because we tell the truth, and the truth doesn't fit into his agenda. 

SPEAKER 2: So you mean, you bring that up. Trump loves the media. So a couple of years ago, I was in the audience when Jeff Zucker, the President of CNN, was sitting up here. And this was actually quoted when Trump was elected in the New York Times in their front page story. Jeff Zucker expressed regret for running live a bunch of Trump's rallies in full. 

And then, recently you've got things like recent hires to run parts or portions of CNN's political coverage, or election coverage. I know you can't speak fully to CNN's global strategy and election strategy. Maybe you can speak though a little bit to moving into 2020. Whether you're thinking about things any differently, in terms of how you're going to be covering that election? 

DON LEMON: Well I'm glad you said Jeff was here and he answered the question. So what he said is, that's his answer. I can't I can't speak for Jeff Zucker, and I can't speak for hiring practices. I don't hire people. 

And I really, honestly, I'm being honest with you, I'm not trying to escape your question, I don't really know about the political hires we're talking about. I don't know. That's above my pay grade. I can only control what I do around me when the red light goes on in that camera, what I say and what I do. 

SPEAKER 2: But within that. 

DON LEMON: Of course. But within that, yes of course. If you don't learn from your past actions, even if they're mistakes or not mistakes, if you don't learn from that, listen, you learn from when you did something good which was not a mistake. You learn from when you did something bad which we may consider a mistake. Some people think it's a learning opportunity. Of course I do. 

But I think for me, and I can only speak for me, is that the best way that we can move forward in this society is to point out what the truth is, and to focus on the policies as much as we can, rather than the distractions. 

And the Twitter feed can be a distraction. The bombastic behavior can be a distraction. The trying to change the agenda and push [? for ?] shiny objects by calling people names, that can be a distraction, it's to focus on the policy and what's actually happening, rather than on all of the other dangly things. And I think that's the best thing that I can do moving forward. 

AISHA: So to follow up on that, the truth is that because of this guy, who I don't feel like naming, the media is under assault. Media at one point was one of the most trusted institutions in the country and the world. And now trust and faith in media quote [? air ?] quote is at a low among the general public. 

So , talking to the public here, what would you remind us of as someone who has been in this business your whole career, who is a truth teller, whose goal is to tell the truth, for the folks who are the naysayers, the ones who were side eyeing information and the facts, the people who don't trust and believe in CNN, in New York Times, whoever. What would you just kind of appeal to us and remind us as we digest current affairs. 

DON LEMON: Well I always believe what my mom said, the truth will set you free, right. So, and the truth always comes out in the end. If you look at any-- history can be a very tough reminder of what's true and what's not. And if you look at any scandal or any presidency regardless of how popular they were during their time, history will be the judge of the accuracy and the impact of that person in office. So, take some solace in that. 

Number two, the presidency, and I'll tell you why I'm saying this, comes with term limits, journalism does not. So long after this administration was in power, there will be journalism. So take some solace in that. 

Number three, it's not just the institution of journalism that's under attack. Our intelligence, journalism, our government, systems and institutions, are under attack as a whole because of, in large part, this administration. So, this administration has caused issues, to put it lightly, with a lot of institutions, including the very institution itself, and that is the presidency. 

So not only we people don't have trust, as much trust, as they have in the past for journalism and other institutions. They don't have as much trust in the presidency. So I think it all balances out. 

So I think when there is a presidency, or an administration, Republican or Democrat or Libertarian or Independent, whoever comes in office, who offers that truth back up, starts reinforcing and supporting institutions, then all of the trust level, the trust level for all institutions will come back stronger including journalism. 

And once Congress finds a backbone, and lawmakers then the trust level for Congress, the Congress, meaning the Senate and the House, that will all come back. 

AISHA: From your lips, let's hope. 

DON LEMON: It will. Trust me, I'm older than you, I know. So, there's a pendulum. There's always a pendulum and the pendulum will swing back, we just have to get through it. 

AISHA: All right. Well we are, in a moment, going to open this up to question and answer but I-- 

DON LEMON: I thought you guys were going to grill me. 

AISHA: But I thought we'd have a little bit fun. I thought we'd have a little quick get to know the personal side of Don Lemon. 

DON LEMON: Uh oh. 

AISHA: How do you like to steak cooked? I'm 6 foot 5 and I'm 27 years old. 

AISHA: Oh. OK. 

DON LEMON: And I weigh 178 pounds. All muscle. 

AISHA: So, how do you like your steak cooked? 

DON LEMON: Oh. You're not going to like this. Except for the ketchup part, it's pretty close to our president. 

AISHA: Ketchup where? 

DON LEMON: No, I don't like ketchup. I said, except for the ketchup part. I like my steak well done. I like it, yes. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know how I like it. I've tried it, I've tried it. I either like it, it's got to be raw or cooked. So I'm going to do sushi or you're going to have to kill it. 

So I like it charred. I like the ends crunchy and then the middle, maybe sort of medium-- I mean I'm sorry, well, medium-well. Well. But I like the ends crunchy, but I always do well-done. Don't give me no raw meat. 

[LAUGHTER] 

AISHA: What's your favorite pastime? How do you unwind? 

DON LEMON: Besides sleeping, sleeping. I love to sleep, and I used to love to swim. I don't get a chance to do that anymore. And I love hanging out and playing with my dogs. 

AISHA: How many? 

DON LEMON: Two. Poodles, rescues. 

AISHA: Big? Like standard? 

DON LEMON: No, they are mini-poodles. They're the cutest. One's black and one's white. But it's interesting because I'm black, my boyfriend's white. So everyone's like, oh my God you guys are so cute together. It really is a lesson in diversity. 

And the naughty one by the way, is the white dog. It's mischievous. Everyone's like, which one's the naughty one? And Tim is like, the white one. I feel like I know I be quoting from-- it's just a joke, come on. 

SPEAKER 2: Maybe to kind of wrap things up, also on a lighter note. I'm interested in journalism, a lot of my friends are interested in journalism. You've succeeded in journalism. 

DON LEMON: I hope so. 

SPEAKER 2: You have. Maybe you can just speak to any tips that you have for anybody aspiring to be a journalist, right now in this day and age. And particularly A, considering the information space that we're in now and B, all the changes we're seeing with technology, the way consumption patterns are changing. 

DON LEMON: If you didn't see the importance of journalism before, certainly you see it now. And any time there's a reason that there is an attack, there's an assault on this institution, is because a lot of people want to have their particular way only in this society, but that we are part of the bedrock of American society. We are built into the Constitution. If you would like to take part of a profession that's built into the Constitution, that's supposed to keep our country in check, and our leaders in check then become a journalist. 

And don't worry about left leaning, right leaning opinion, whatever kind of journalism you want, worry about truth leaning. And worry about being excellent. Don't worry about being Black, white, gay, woman, Muslim, Hispanic, Asian, whatever. Join a profession where excellence and truth always wins out. The facts will always matter. It's like mathematics, it's like becoming a mathematician. Truth, that's our ideology in journalism. 

So if there wasn't a more important time to be a journalist, I don't know when it would be besides now. And if you think there's an erosion in journalism then help make it better. 

AISHA: All right. I know that you all been sitting in your seats dying to ask questions of Mr Don Lemon. There are microphones all around, so as you line up to ask your questions, I want to remind us of our forum rules. 

Number one, please identify yourself before you're asked your question. Number two, be brief, brevity is key here. Ask only one question. And number three, a question ends in a question. So we will start, I guess over here. 

MILES: Hello. Hi. Thanks for coming first off. It's a pleasure to be here. And my name's Miles. I'm actually from Alabama originally. I was born in Birmingham. 

DON LEMON: I lived in Birmingham, Miles. 

MILES: Yes. So my question relates more to kind of contemporary news that's happened the past few days. I was hoping to hear your view on the Jussie Smollett case? And what you think of the kind of rush to judgment within the media on both sides? So, yeah. 

DON LEMON: Well, I don't know if this is a both sides thing. Here's what I think. So, a lot of people have asked me about that. The sort of rush to judgment, is a narrative. When I watch mainstream news organizations, whether it is ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox, whatever, every single journalist or news organization that is reputable said, alleged. We don't know. 

And a lot of the times some of the attention was not placed on the story because number one, it was a local story, and number two, people didn't know the facts. And so until you know all the facts, you can't come out and condemn Jussie Smollett because even now, he's still innocent until proven guilty. 

So I don't necessarily believe in that whole, rush to judgment, about the media. There's something that we can all learn from a rush to judgment. And there are other stories that are better examples. I just don't think that this is one. I think this is one that people who have a certain agenda are using to try to say that the media is biased on the left, and there's more racism among African-Americans, and we know that's all bullshit. 

And so I think there are better examples. You may believe the narrative because it's said over and over and over. And that is a great way to reinforce to your audience, the beliefs that they have, that they want to have. But it's not necessarily the truth. 

And guess what, if there was a rush to judgment by the media, there was also a rush to judgment by the President of the United States who also said this was horrible. It should not have happened. I saw that story it's terrible. 

I don't see anything wrong with people saying that and having compassion when someone says that they're a victim, When you get new information, and you become knowledgeable, and you become more informed then you can form your opinion about it, in the moment. And so people shouldn't be judged for having compassion or believing a victim, someone who says that they're a victim. 

AISHA: Coming up. Yes. 

JOY: I thank you so much. My name is Joy, and I'm at the Graduate School of Education in the Education Policy Program. 

DON LEMON: Hi, Joy. 

JOY: Hi. So my question is about the intersection of policy makers and the media. How do you think that, I've been in a nonprofit setting where we're scared of the media. We can't let them find out something too fast because we don't know how they're going to spin it. 

DON LEMON: Smart. 

JOY: My question is how can we as policymakers interact better with the media so that we can bring more truth to the public? 

DON LEMON: I would say, when you say figure out how the media is going to spin it, I'm speaking for my organization, we never try to spin something, maybe how it's going to be consumed. Right. Not only by the media but also by the public at large. 

How can you work with the media better? I think the best thing to do is transparency and trust. But you should have a healthy skepticism, but at the end of the day, you're trusting the media to go out and promote or provide a platform for whatever policy that you deem is worthy of it. 

So I would say that transparency is one thing. I don't think the media is going to try to spin it even though you may feel that way. You have to be media literate and also consumer literate enough to understand the possibility of how this may be consumed, and not necessarily in the way that you want it to. 

And so you have to have an exit plan, or a plan B if it doesn't go the way you want it to go. Because, just because you give it to us, and you think it's great, it doesn't mean the public is going to take it that way. And it doesn't mean we're not going to look at your policy and go, oh, this is all great, but how are you going to pay for this? Right? So, trust and transparency, and have a plan B and C and D. 

JOY: Thank you 

AISHA: Thank you. Over here. 

LUKE: Hi. Thank you for coming Don. My name is [? Luke. ?] I'm a freshman at the college. Over recent years, televised and cable news media have come under a lot of scrutiny for their emphasis on horserace coverage in electoral politics, rather than substantive coverage about candidates and their views and issues, policy proposals. Do you think there's merit to these criticisms in going forward into 2020? 

DON LEMON: Yes. 

AISHA: All right. There we go. 

DON LEMON: I mean I do, of course. I mean, I'm a journalist and yes. I mean, what more would you like to know? I don't know any other way to answer but, yeah, you're right. 

LUKE: Like CNN and plenty of channels focus on polling numbers and who's more likely to win in a scenario, rather than sometimes talking about what the candidates are talking about on the campaign trail and what issues are important to them. And do you think there's validity and importance to what cable news media are doing, talking about horserace coverage. Or do you think that they've kind of dropped the ball in not focusing on candidates and issues? 

DON LEMON: I think there are a lot of things that we can do better. But I also think that we do both of those things or all of those things that you're talking about. But it may not be, percentagewise, what you want us, how you want us to do it, or how much you want us to do it. And again, I think we could always do better. 

As I said in the previous answer, I think it's better, instead of focusing on the shiny object or the distractions, to focus on policy. But hold that thought. And I think the tough thing is that a wonky policy discussion doesn't always garner the attention of people, right? They'll tune out. 

So we have to remember that we want viewers. We don't want to be overtly exploitative but in some way it has to be interesting. And we have to cover the horse race because we have to tell people where we are at any given moment. And so, yeah I think we can do better. I think we could probably cover more policy. But think about it, it's called the news business. So, take that for what it's worth. Great question. 

VICTOR: Pleasure talking to you. I'm Victor I'm a mid-career MPA here at Kennedy School. I want to get your impressions about the business model of journalism, particularly on TV, particularly on cable TV. How do you-- 

DON LEMON: Wait can you hold on Victor. I'm sorry. Where did that young man go? The other thing is that what we-- 

[LAUGHTER] 

DON LEMON: No,no.no. I do this, if you guys watch me, you'll know I do that. Also, wait a minute, hold that thought. We have to figure out how to make policy more interesting. That's part of our [INAUDIBLE], that we need to become better at doing that. OK? To answer your question. Sorry, go ahead, Victor. 

VICTOR: I don't have to repeat right? So I'll follow from where I stopped. 

DON LEMON: Say again, sorry. It's been a long week. There's a lot of news. 

VICTOR: OK. I'll start all over again. 

DON LEMON: I'm on like 3 brain cells 

VICTOR: I'm asking about how do you feel about the business model on cable TV? If you get anxious about this? Some people say, in a couple of years it will be over. And how are the discussions going in your newsroom? 

DON LEMON: The business model of--? 

VICTOR: The business model, like people are watching less and less TV. And moving more towards the internet, getting informed by social media. And how do you feel, how are these discussions going in your newsroom, for example? 

DON LEMON: So that is again, beyond my pay grade. Obviously I have to be concerned about it. But just because the television is not some fixed thing that's on a credenza or a stand or stapled to a wall, doesn't mean that people aren't consuming it. Because people consume me now on their phone. I watch CNN because there's a lot of interesting things going on in the news today. [? Arceolic, ?] can you all believe that? Girl. 

But people are consuming it on their phones. There's no difference, that's still television. You have a vlog or some sort of podcast, a podcast is just radio that you have, that you can tune in with your earphones. A video podcast, or whatever, you know that's just television that you consume on your phone, or whatever. 

So the only difference is that maybe some day people won't have to have a subscription in a typical way, in the typical sense, to cable. But you still have to have that subscription in order to tune in. So it's just sort of morphing and transforming the business model. So I don't think that my job will necessarily go away. Because I think there will be a spot for people like me, especially I'm a little bit of a firebrand, and I think there's always room for that. I hope I answered your question. But I don't really know enough about the business model. I just know about being a talking head, and stirring things up and getting people talking. 

AISHA: Thank you. Up top. 

OLIVIA: Hi, my name's Olivia. I'm a first year student at the Business School. You've spoken a lot about truth and when you think about, there's a lot of talented folks out there who can make data sing a bunch of different songs, so when you look at the sea of facts, how do you find the real truth? 

DON LEMON: When I look at, wait say that again. 

OLIVIA: When you're looking at all these different facts out there, you can pull together different facts to create a different narrative, and they're all true. So how do you create the truth, like how do you pull the truth out of that? 

DON LEMON: Well, I mean that's a difficult question. You'd have to give me a specific example of that. I mean there are a gazillion ways to answer that. But at the end of the day, 1 plus 1 equals 2, you know. And so unless you give me a specific example, I don't really have a good answer to that. 

OLIVIA: Do you have an approach to when you look at a bunch of different facts, how that comes about for you? Or you just like try and distill it down to its most truth 

DON LEMON: Is it an aggregate of a number? I'm not good at math. That's why I do this. No very simply, I'm just looking at the facts and I'm looking at people to be honest when they come on. And if you are indeed spinning those facts then we'll figure it out. But it's hard to spin facts. I mean you can spin rhetoric but you can't really spin facts. 

You can try to tell people that what they're seeing with their own eyes is not true. But at the end of the day you know what you're seeing with your own eyes. So, I hope I answered-- that's a tough one to answer without a specific example. 

AISHA: Up top here. Are you standing in line? Yeah 

NIKKI: Hi, I'm Nikki. Nice to meet you. Actually, Olivia kind of already reiterated my question, but I guess what I'm wondering is, when you do have multiple inputs, how do you decide when you're focusing in your personal beliefs on which inputs to take in? 

DON LEMON: In my personal-- Well, I'm not concerned about my personal beliefs when I'm doing-- 

NIKKI: This is outside of your journalism. Just for you, yourself. 

DON LEMON: With my personal beliefs when I'm taking in two different--? 

NIKKI: When you're taking in multiple inputs, how do you decide when you're actually looking at information, what you're going to choose to put your faith into? 

DON LEMON: When I'm going to choose to do what? 

AISHA: Are you asking if there's personal bias in telling the news. Is that what you're simply trying to say? 

NIKKI: Sorry about that I'm a bit short for this microphone. My question is, when we're making our personal views of the world around us, we choose to put stock into certain pieces of information. When you're deciding on your personal beliefs, how do you approach that process? 

DON LEMON: I don't really think about that in my personal beliefs. I can't really answer that question, because it has nothing to do with what I do as a journalist. There are people around me in my profession, I have producers and staff, and with standards and practices. And we have researchers who help us out with what's true, and even then if you want to take the aggregate of what's misleading and what's not misleading. 

So I have a whole team of people around me who can help me with that. But in my personal life, I'm just like you. I read things, I look at and I go, huh, if that's true or not. And if I believe it, or if I don't believe it, I find more than one source for it to place my beliefs on. And it depends on the credibility of those sources. 

So I don't tend to lead in my personal life or in my professional life, with some staunch belief that I have in something. It just depends on what the subject matter is and the circumstances. 

AISHA: Thank you. Last question over here. 

CORRINE: Hi, my name's Corrine and I'm a second year at the college. You may disagree with me, but a general criticism of mainstream media right now is that it's becoming too politicized on both sides. And I was wondering if you think that's a problem or perhaps a good thing that media companies are being transparent with their views? 

DON LEMON: But tell me first of all, tell me what you mean by both sides? 

NIKKI: Well like the Fox News and CNN divide for example. 

DON LEMON: OK. We don't necessarily see ourselves in that way that you see. And that's not necessarily the truth. That is a narrative that people would like. But we don't see ourselves as a partisan operation. And we're not a partisan operation even though people like to put that on us because they want to have that narrative. They think it helps them. 

And when you're covering that narrative by criticizing CNN and saying that you're not actually covering the news. We cover the news and that's it. And we have people on from all different stripes to get their opinions, to make sure that there's balance. So I don't think about that because it's not true. 

I work there, I can tell you that it's not true. So I don't like that you believe that, but there's nothing that I can do about it but continue to do my job. So I don't really-- I can't answer that question because I don't believe that the premise of it is accurate. 

SPEAKER 2: So on that note, Don has to run to a flight. Do you have to record a show tonight? 

DON LEMON: I'm on live at 10:00. 

SPEAKER 2: Yeah, he's on live at 10:00 so, I think-- 

DON LEMON: I have an 08:15 taping with someone. 

SPEAKER 2: So watch him tonight. Thank you all for coming and thank you, Don, so much. Don Lemon. 

AISHA: Thank you. 

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